|
Subject: Karin Sander project
Message:
Hi,
We started to put together a complete list of languages. Altogether there's 6,800 languages (of
which 1,000 exist in written form) and they're all listed on a great web site: http://www.ethnologue.com
The languages are listed with their countries of origin and with maps of the countries. It's a great reference work and lists
every language and every dialect that's spoken somewhere or other.
But to stop the whole thing getting too out of hand we put together a "rough" list. Right now it's impossible to say whether we're going to find people who
speak all the languages on the list... perhaps we'll find completely different people who speak completely different languages, but the list's at least a good place to start.
Bye for now, All the best
Subject: Karin Sander project
Message:
Hi,
Gee! There's so many languages, ... if we know half of them we'll be lucky. - I can imagine that there aren't even any computer fonts for some of them, in which case we'll probably
have to fall back on scanned typeface. - But we'll see, once the project gets going.
All the best
Subject: Contact person
Message:
Hi,
After conducting our wordsearch mostly in shops, restaurants and grocery
stores so far, we'd like to look for words and languages in a few other kinds of places. So we wanted to ask you whether you might perhaps know a good contact person in the Deutsche Bank here in New York who might put us in contact with
colleagues who speak other languages. I think that would be very interesting because that way we'll get to meet a completely different section of the population.
Thanks a lot, and all the best
Subject: Language project
Message:
Hi,
Today we were in "Russia" on Coney Island and spent 6 hours finding 5 different Russian languages. There's a total of 16 of them spoken on the territory of the former Soviet Union. My being able to speak
at least a little Russian and read the language quite well was very useful, because English was not much good for making contact with all those people sitting out there in the sun by the sea in their fur coats and big sun glasses. An
old man helped us to write a Russian language list in Russian and with the list it was somewhat easier to explain to people that we were not just looking for people who spoke Russian but also Belorussian, Ukrainian, Tatar, Lithuanian,
etc.
For the various African, Chinese, and perhaps Indian languages, we think we could do with the help of someone who speaks the "basic" language, who can then explain the project to the people in their own language.
As
far as the language list is concerned, it will probably (unfortunately, but naturally) keep on changing, and you cannot talk about "the" definitive language list because we keep on meeting up with people who speak something
completely different. I think we have to be flexible about this, now and in the future.
After we spent some time today in a Jewish/Russian community center being passed on from one person to the next, we eventually got to meet the
boss who made a good suggestion. She said why didn't we leave a list with the security man at the entrance, so that people could write down their names and words and languages themselves. We wanted to at least try this as an experiment
because towards the end it'll get harder to meet people by chance or thru other people.
I'm also curious as to how the translation bureau will handle the project and what they can define and translate as a language and what not. The
linguist, at least, said that anyone who speaks a language and who defines it as such for themselves should be recognized as a "speaker" of that language, because languages are always changing and are mainly defined by the
people who speak them.
Well, just a few thoughts... At this rate we'll be getting through several pairs of sneakers every month - we spend 5-8 hours or so trudging around the city. And another thing you shouldn't underestimate is
that when you start talking with people and they notice that you're interested in where they come from and what languages they speak, then they sure do get talking, and that can sometimes last for hours!
But we're in good spirits and are having lots of fun!
All the best
Subject: Languid languages learn loquacity!
Message:
Today we sent off a few more new languages, mostly from our trip to India. First thing
tomorrow we're off to Harlem, because right now the African languages seem to be rather under-represented.
And - we couldn't decide on a German. No German seems "good" enough to us. It's funny... with any other language we
don't much care who we get to meet, we're just happy to find someone who's a native speaker, only with German..... and English too, really, but Karin had a good idea on that score.... she'll explain it to you. On Friday we're meeting up
with Doreen from the NY Times whom you recommended to us. She speaks Slovak.
We hope that you're all well and we look forward to your coming over here.
All the best
Subject: Good morning
Message:
Hi,
Questions, questions... here (hopefully) a few answers: After we met with the linguist yesterday, we had to admit that unfortunately at the moment as far as NY is concerned it's impossible to verify the list of languages drawn up to
date. But he recommended us a book called Languages in New York, published by the city. But in this book there's no list of languages with more than about 100 languages in it. But - in this book there is apparently an address of the
city authorities or rather of one of its organizations that can help - right now I can't be more specific until we actually have the book.
Yesterday we were in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh until about 10 at night, and right now
we're on our way (hopefully - I have to wait for confirmation) to Iceland. - But then we'll upload a few languages.
That's all for now. All the best
Subject: Iceland
Message:
Hi,
Just got confirmation for
Iceland, we'll be meeting him around 10 a.m. So if you call and we're not there, - we'll be in Iceland, - fishing.
All the best
Subject: evening update
Message:
Hi,
Back from Harlem. It rained. Some of them
couldn't write. But we still managed to get 5 languages, 3 of which are spoken more on a village than a national level. We uploaded the other 2 into the Internet. I think the translators will have fun with them. You have to speak them
slowly and write them down letter for letter.
But there seems to be a problem..... all the African languages collected so far have come up with a single word, but the translation is always something like: be patient, sit down, what's
your name, which way is it, I'm fine.......
all these phrases are just one word in African. We tried to get the people to come up with other words, but they were the ones they chose... and for them each one is just one word. Hmm...
what does that mean as far as the layout is concerned?
All the best
Subject: Question
Message:
Hi,
We've got a question: Looking for words we came across some people who've thought a lot about the word they come
up with. For instance the woman from Serbo-Croatia, (East), or the woman from Rumania, who came up with "weakness."
Today we met a woman who is Armenian but was born in Lebanon. She spent the entire evening yesterday
writing down various words she likes that occurred to her. The she classified the words into various categories... politically correct (earth, sun, rain, sky), playful words she likes (whisper, puzzle..), then others whose sounds she
finds particularly beautiful in Armenian, but that might be considered politically incorrect, such as "pus" for instance. You asked us for ideas for the catalog, so we would like to ask some of these people who really know a
lot about their own language (its history, why its alphabet has the letters it does have, who speaks the language where, and why, etc.) if they'd like to write something about it, because we.... could never write something as good based
on what these people tell us, because we clearly come from a completely different political and cultural background.
If you think that this would be an interesting idea, some of these people would definitely be prepared to write
something, perhaps not anything very long, but at least half a page or maybe a quarter.
What do you think?
P.S. The woman from Armenia just called again. Just to write a small text for the Internet she had quoted a line from a
book of poetry: ("Every night they change the street names.") Now at home she just found out that she misquoted one of the words and has asked us to meet with her again tomorrow so she can correct it. Isn't that nice of her?
All the best
Subject: Update
Message:
Hi,
5 new languages updated. (Icelandic, Russian, Hindi, Italian, Turkish.) New languages we found today that are not yet in the list: Moldavian, Crimean Tatar,
yeah,
there's supposed to be 6,000 languages. You never know who you're gonna meet here.
P.S. We're sure looking forward to your coming, then we can show you the crazy pile of notes we collected.... perhaps then you'll get an idea of the
kind of linguistic confusion that is slowly overwhelming us.
All the best
Subject: re: answer re: thanks again!
Message:
Hi
New languages have arrived. I think there's 7 of them.
Otherwise... on Thursday we
were in the Nigerian embassy and found 8 languages there. Everybody was very friendly and helpful, but at the same time mistrustful. It was kind of funny and a little bit unpleasant, because we didn't have any official papers or the
postcard we suggested to show that we are really from this project, who we are, where we're from, and what the project is all about.
Tomorrow we'll be visiting grocery stores and restaurants again, in Forest Hill, Queens, where
people from the former Soviet Union are supposed to be living who speak the languages we'd still like to cross off our "Russian" list.
All the best, and have a good week.
Anyin, Aramaic, Bete-Bendi, Bhutanese, Bisayan,
Bukharic, Crimean Tatar, Ebira, Edo, Efik, Eggon, Ejagham, Fuuta Jalon, Haitian Creole Hawaiian Creole, Idoma, Japanese, Kannada, Lingala, Mandinka, Mixteco Moldavia, Patois, Punjabi North India, Punjabi Pakistan, Soninke, Susu,
Tukolor, Zarma
Subject: new updates
Message:
Hi.
We uploaded some more new languages onto the web site. Garifuna, Thai, Nepali, Serbo-Croatian, Tibetan....
We also prepared the following languages for
uploading, but they're not on the list. We'll also send these languages to Martin, perhaps he can update the list:
Aramaic, Bhutanese, Bisayan, Crimean Tatar, Fuuta Jalon, Haitian Creole, Hawaiian Creole, Moldavia, Patois, Punjabi
North India, Punjabi Pakistan,
It's real funny the coincidences you sometimes come across. Because it's getting more difficult to find people in the street who speak a language we haven't got yet, last week we began to concentrate
more on contacting people and organizations... but you have to wait a long time before you get to see anybdy... it always takes 1 or 2 weeks, in other words things do get set up, and very interesting things too, but things move
incredibly slowly.
We gave the Deutsche Bank art catalog to some people who were interested in art.
We're also working on the sound the whole time. It's a lot of work, and only time will tell whether it's been worth it all. People
often pronounce the name of their language in English... and sometimes it only occurs to us later that the name of the language is probably pronounced differently in the language itself... but it's difficult for us to keep things apart,
because after all when the people start speaking in their languages we can't understand what they're saying, and because they know that, it's probably also natural for them to speak to us in their language. A question like What does
German mean in German? How do you say German in German? , sounds straightforward perhaps, but it ain't necessarily so. So we'll soon be sending you the first experiments, and then you can tell us what you think of the results.
Otherwise it's all a lot of fun! Be in touch.
All the very best
Subject: language project
Message:
Hi,
Just uploaded three new languages, Hungarian, Danish and Catalan. In the language list it only says
CATAL.... but I think that's probably a typo. We're off to the Mexican Cultural Institute now, to maybe find a few contacts who speak native mexican languages. We asked at least 20 Mexicans if they speak anything else beside Spanish,
but no dice.... maybe we just had bad luck.
All the best
Subject: Crimean Tatar
Message:
Hi,
Here's our Internet reseachrch results:
CRIMEAN TATAR (Engl.)
KRIMTATARISCHE SPRACHE (Ger.)
We cannot
guarantee anything 100%. Today we met someone who speaks Swahili and we showed her our Swahili word... she told us she'd never heard the word before and that it didn't exist. This often happens, people correct the spelling of words
other people have written down for us, sometimes it's just one big mess.
But we're doing our best to keep on top of it all.
Today we were in the Ethiopian embassy, in the Brazilian Promotion Center in the Ghana House, In the
Philippines mission and at Ethiopian Airlines. We got 2 more languages, but the Ethiopian ambassador was very nice and will be passing on some more languages to us. We couldn't get in at either Ghana or the Philippines. You just have to
keep on trying, because we'd tried to make appointments by telephone before going there, but the secretaries on the other end were very negative. But once you get inside and meet the boss, things usually go smoothly. It's not easy to
get hold of the boss in question, however, because there's so many people between you and him. We see it all as a challenge and have a number of strategies up our sleeves.
We also got rid of the "mistakes". We didn't have a
scanner at the beginning and thought we could simply photograph the words, but clearly it didn't come out that well, as we soon realized. Now we have a scanner and everything is "smooth".
More later, all the best
Subject: S P R. AAA. ling
Message:
Hi,
UPDATES:
Hmm, searching for languages at random doesn't seem to make much sense any more. Yesterday we were walking around Forest Hill (Queens) for 5 straight hours, looking for
languages, and came up with precisely: one. Well, better than nothing, I guess.
Now we're contacting a number of consulates, 4 were very busy, the Indonesian consulate was very nice, we'll probably be able to call by there tomorrow,
unless they come up with some policy or other again.
LANGUAGE LIST:
We're also working on putting together a list of the missing languages. Perhaps we can then send it to specially selected people. Karin also sent us the address
of a woman from the Metropolitan Museum. A friend of ours worked there as a guard and told us that the people on the staff of the Met alone speak 60 different languages. Unfortunately Karin's contact was not there and will only be back
in 3 weeks, the other people we were put in contact with once again had problems with POLICY. In the "High ALERT" situation prevailing in the United States right now it's just not possible to casually drop by. Okay, nothing
else to report right now. We hope we'll hit on a LANGUAGE NEST soon, because right now the going's a bit tough. But we contacted some more community houses, perhaps smbdy will call back.
Have a great day, and all the best
Subject: The language list and its little problem
Message:
Hi, NAGUMMA? (How's things? in Oromoo. (Ethiopia)
You could reply: "OFURA." which means "good" in Egan (Nigeria)
We could also chat in Efik:
"Idem fo?" "how are you?" Then you could say "Fon Gandi" in Fon (Benin). That means "I am ok." You see, it's all quite simple! GLOBAL UNDERSTANDING. Just a few more months of wordsearching and
we'll be able to apply for a job in the Tower of Babel.
But to get back to business:
Here are a couple of additions for the language list. There's a language called
1. Western Farsi (spoken for instance in Iran)
Comments:
"The literary language is virtually identical in Iran and Afghanistan, with very minor lexical differences. "
But the man from Iran who speaks and writes Western Farsi says he couldn't read the word of the man who comes
from Afghanistan. It also looks completely different.
2. Eastern Farsi, spoken in Afghanistan.
Comments: Radio Afghanistan broadcasts are promoting a standardized pronunciation of the literary language which is based on the old
dictional tradition of the country, with its archaic phonetic characteristics. Formal style is closer to Tehrani Persian (Farsi); informal style in some parts of Afghanistan is closer to Tajiki of Tajikistan. Phonological and lexical
differences between Iran and Afghanistan cause little difficulty in comprehension. Most Afghan dialects are closer to literary Persian than Iranian dialects are to literary Persian.
The languages are also listed separately. Should we
also list them as two separate ones? We think so. What do you think? Also:
Moldavian, also known as Moldova, is identical with Romanian. Only the people from Moldavia call the language Moldova and insist that that is the correct
name, and the people from Romania call the language Romanian. But because the languages are probably identical it's probably a political question as to whether we list one or both - and if only one, which one. The sources we always use
are as follows:
http://www.ethnologue.com/country_index.asp the country index, or http://www.ethnologue.com/language_index.asp the language index
Of course there are also always different names for the languages. As I say, we
always refer to the web site to be "consistent", but in the case of the African languages there are enormous differences between what people call their language and what name it goes by, and what it's called in the
"dictionary".
We just wanted to tell you this in case anybody starts asking questions after the web site is published, so that you know where we got our information from and why we listed which language under which name.
Wow, the whole thing sure is complicated - but it sure is fun!
All the best and Natasha - (thanks in Bemba, (Zambia))
Subject: Re: Sander - Languages
Message:
Hi, Conas ta tu? That's how are you in Irish Gaelic.)
Good news: In Harlem, in the gigantic, monumental complex of Riverside church there's a language center where immigrants or refugees who've not been in NY for more than 18 months can take an intensive English course. The course runs
for 6 weeks, 5 days a week, 6 hours a day. And... it's all free, doesn't cost a cent. The people don't even need to have a Green Card. At any one time there are 8 classes running, making about 200 people in all. They're selected by lot.
One of the teachers was very nice and helpful and gave us a table where we could put up our little stand, and every 5 minutes someone new was brought in who spoke another language, mostly from the former Soviet bloc. So we got 8 new
languages in 2 hours. FUN>!
Yesterday was a good day too. We had 5 appointments and hot-footed it all the way from Harlem and the Upper West Side to Astor Place, to the Ghana Mission, to NYU, and got 5 new languages.
So, the whole organizational stress of last week is now paying off this week.
Kann Bo Choula! (Good night in Mandinka.)
Later,
Subject: Re: Good morning this Monday!
Message:
Hi,
So the weekend's over. This
week our wordsearch wasn't as successful as we might have wished, here and there things didn't work out, and now and then we ran into some bad luck. Today we uploaded 3 languages: Czech, Quechua and Chickasaw. But on the other hand we
have 4 appointments for tomorrow alone. The first is at the Ghanaian embassy, then we move on to NY University, then we have an appointment with somebody from Estonia, then afterwards with smbdy from Latvia. Next week we also have
appointments at the Indonesian embassy, at the Native American Social Club, at the Ethiopian embassy again, and with people who speak Berber, Scottish Gaelic and Flemish.
Let's see what happens. As "Germans" we have
different ideas about "keeping appointments" - the people here are more casual about such things. It doesn't matter of you don't show up - you can always come by next week instead.
So long!
Subject: Thank you letter again
Message:
Hi,
Greetings from NY. Today we were in the Ethiopian embassy again. Didn't quite work out as we planned, because our contact had collected together all the languages and words on
his own... so we couldn't take any photos and of course the words were all the same (God, house, hello, love....) But he was very helpful and did us a big favor with his list. He was really very sweet, even though we couldn't pronounce
his first name, despite several attempts. Well, we'll see, if we find the (5) languages again we'll swap them, otherwise we'll have to see how to "put them to good use." We'll call you again tomorrow, till then all the best
Subject: Languages
Message:
Hi,
I'm telling you, I just had a minor nervous breakdown: I just found out I erased a whole folder of pictures. 3 language pictures, I can't believe it either, but that doesn't change
the fact that it happened. In the past few days we collected a lot of languages, and things were very hectic, I must say... I think we had 9 appointments in the past 2 days, racing from one to the next. Well, I guess that's no excuse
for erasing this folder, but now we'll have to try and get to meet these people again.
I'll probably be able to get to see 2 of the 3 again, but the whole thing is so dumb... But we'll get over it somehow.
The meeting with the
Native Americans yesterday was very mixed. An old woman was sitting at the reception doing beadwork. She told us a bit about the house's activities and mentioned a lunch buffet where the community got together every day. "Come by,
if you want, even if you do not have Indian blood, you can still eat with us." This basically set the mood for the meeting that followed in the "circle" with the 3 Native Americans. The third man at the meeting yesterday
was very nice. He grew up on a reservation and emphasized that English was his second language. Until he was 5 he spoke only Cree, and only when his parents left the reservation did he learn English. He told us all about his origins and
life on the reservation, which was very interesting.
We are now on our way to NJ to visit the translation bureau and check it out. We'll let you know how it goes.
We now have a total of 103 languages. We're quite pleased with
ourselves, even if that makes less than half of the total. The Language Center yesterday gave us a good "boost." Otherwise it's incredibly difficult to get appointments with individual people. Some people we've been talking to
on the telephone every second day for weeks, postponing appointments, making new ones, then postponing them again, etc. We always have to remind ourselves not to take these things personally, but sometimes you do reach the limits of
your own patience. It seems as if the "rarer" a language is, the "more special" are the people who speak it. But perhaps we just happened to hit on a few "very special" people.
Nobody answers emails. We
had targeted quite a few likely looking institutions and centers in the Internet, but of the 40 emails we sent, only one woman replied. The telephone seems to be a more direct form of communication.
Some people promised to write a
text about their chosen word, etc. and the people we asked so far were quite enthusiastic about the idea. It'll be interesting to see who actually calls back and when, because as I said, our connections and "promises" are
sometimes incredibly unreliable. But we're reasonably sure that at least some will call back. We asked them to write ¼ to 1 page of text and to suggest a fee themselves.
OK, that's all for now. I have to get on the telephone again
and try to smooth out the mess I made over those pictures.
This evening we'll upload some more pictures and texts into the Net.
Until later, all the best
Have fun working too!
Subject: another day
Message:
Hi,
Today was a good day. We had an appointment at the Indonesian consulate and sat down with 9 other people at a table to search for words. But it wasn't that easy... after how are you, please and thank you, a lot of people find it
difficult to come up with anything new.
The gentleman who introduced us at the consulate was real friendly and helpful, he had got together all his staff for us at the table. Fantastic!
P.S. Do you really want to go for only 250
languages? (Just joking - today has put me in a good mood!)
Perhaps we can talk tomorrow. All the best from Indonesia!
"Mari jo torang pergi" (let's go in an Indonesian language from the North Celebes)
Subject: A short P.S.
Message:
Hi,
Just a small contribution from my parents who looked at the web site yesterday for the first time and were real impressed with what they saw:
There are a few small typos and spelling
errors on the site. My father has an eye for things like that and he's going to mail me the corrections. Us and our lil spayull-checker tries to do the best us can to get it right, but perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea if smbdy were to
give the stuff the once over before it's uploaded.
"Belabtese" see you soon (in Kabyie, Congo.)
Subject: wordsearch
Message:
Hi,
Tomorrow we've got a bunch of appointments again. Mexican immigration
center (with the oldest chalk-board in the world), Angolan embassy, Ethiopian Airlines, Laotian embassy...
I'll just upload a few languages.
Be in touch, and greetings to all in Frankfurt
Subject: Thursday
Message:
Hi,
Today was a great day, we found 1o languages. The people were all very friendly and relaxed. As the third member of our party doesn't like spending all day on the phone, she came along too, so we made up an all girls
team. Now everything has to be catalogued and got ready for the Internet, pictures scanned, the sound processed, etc.
Today among other things we found the language where you have to click your tongue. From South Africa, Xhosa. It
sounded so funny... in contrast, English and German sound real boring. Tomorrow we've also got a full schedule... mostly African languages. In Harlem in an African service center...
More later, all the very best...
Subject: texts
Message:
We're so excited to find out what the people are going to write. We also look forward to reading what they say because it's a great pity that sometimes you're in such a tearing hurry that you only have time
to "skate over the surface." Language, word, country... and then there's often no more time left, because in NY "everybody always busy," even if it doesn't always look that way.
All the best
|
